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Poster: agstwst33 Date: Apr 11, 2010 6:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

There just seems to be a gaggle of worshiping old heads,who think that the 70`s were Dead at their best,but for the life of me,I don`t hear it..at all!Before they past judgement upon me,I will say that the early music rocked and i do love it just the same.But it`s missing the soul and feeling of Jerry`s age-ripened voice.And the sounds of his trusty"bolt."Those two factors alone turned the band`s magic into the experience we all yearned for!Jerry lived out the lyrics on stage with more of his self in the song in the latter years.Songs like So Many Roads,SOTM,Days Between andBelieve It Or Not wouldn`t of made the impact in the 70`s because the band and especially Jerry did/lt have the dynamics that they perfected in the 80`s and 90`s.I have no problem with saying that they had more nights with heart felt emotion in the latter years then a show out of the 70`s ever! I know i`m not alone with these ideas,so lets hear it....and of course,ill be ready for all the other rants on how i`mso wrong,but its something that needed to be said!!

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Poster: vapors Date: Apr 11, 2010 9:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Obviously you are trying to make a point, but it is a bit difficult to take you seriously with your multiple redundant posts that clutter up the board.

(btw, they can be deleted if you do it before someone replies)

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Poster: agstwst33 Date: Apr 11, 2010 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

so sorry your precious is cluttered,let me wipe your eyes of the tears...fool!The site decided to go off on its own and started to do some crazy shit and for your info,which really not needed,but i had no control of what the site was doing.so takes this seriously,if you can`t answer the question,stay the fuck out of the post.You think you can handle that.Huh?

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Apr 11, 2010 12:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

I can't believe I'm taking the troll bait here, but …

The only one "ranting" here is you. Your post is nothing but a juvenile assertion that your own opinions and personal tastes in Dead music are "the facts" and that anyone who feels differently is engaging in "foolishness".

A quick scan through your previous posts reveals a one-dimensional insistence that the 80s and 90s were somehow superior to the 70s and that Jerry Garcia is a God who should be held above the criticisms of us mere mortals. As supporting evidence, you cite- surprise! -your own opinion. Your reasoning seems to be this: you say it is so, therefore, we are all to believe it is so.

Not happening.

Regardless of what your favorite era is, the creative decline and fall of the Grateful Dead after Jerry Garcia first discovered Persian in the late 1970s has been well documented by those both inside and outside the Dead “family” and thoroughly discussed on this site and elsewhere. The fact that the majority of objective observers (i.e., non-Deadheads who simply judge the music without the baggage of years of emotional investment as fans) concur with this assessment is telling.

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Poster: agstwst33 Date: Apr 18, 2010 2:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!part2

everyone but a small few of you who responded to this actually hear the music!The majority of you sit behind a computer all day and post on this silly site!!!You have no idea what good music is...if you could read!you would have read my 1st post and realized that I enjoy all of The Grateful Dead s music,but think that the latter years are best.and to whomever thinks I think that Jerry is God,well you`re almost right.because when he was here,there was nothing more important than to hear him play.you must have forgotten that,or probably were never there!!most of you probably weren`t!you were behind your computer!..ignorant foolish people who jumped at the chance just to rant about your cherished 70`s,you people really need a LIFE w/o the computer

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Apr 18, 2010 7:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!part2

...and you need to get life outside the prism of the GD. If you honestly think going to Dead shows was ever THE most important thing in the world, then I feel sorry for you. And by the way, I saw all of my shows between 1983 and 1991, so my bias for the 60s and 70s certainly isn't the result of not having experienced what the later-day version of the band had to offer.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Apr 11, 2010 12:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

"...and that Jerry Garcia is a God who should be held above the criticisms of us mere mortals"


WHAT???? are trying to say THAT is not true???


;)

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Apr 11, 2010 4:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

LMAO- Yeah, sadly, this always seems to come as news to some folks around here.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Apr 11, 2010 7:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

no rant from me - i agree that Jerry's voice had far more depth of feeling in the late 80's and early 90's. seems pretty obvious. you could even "see it" when watching him sing - good examples are his exemplary works with Grisman. I think his singing actually became MORE important to him in the later years.

the quality of the actual voice degraded, but his "soul" was far more into it than in the early 70's etc

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 11, 2010 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Funny that you used his work with Grisman as an example of Jerry's voice in a thread about how Jerry sounded with the Dead. I love his work with Grisman and other solo projects into the '90s but have troubles listening to GD from the same period. I think he was far more inspired in his solo efforts at that point and it is reflected in both his singing and playing. Clearly he had his moments during those latter years and I do give some 1990 shows a listen every now and again but I think they were exceptions not the rule.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Apr 11, 2010 10:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

oh - wasnt paying attention to the post that well i guess ;)



(maybe it was because i was watching Grateful Dawg the other night)

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Apr 11, 2010 9:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

well, first off, glad that you are a big fan of Jer's music, because truth be told, i am as well, more so with his work outside the GD, but that's neither here nor there; secondly, many folks here have their preferences for years or eras or songs or singers, and really, it's all good, whatever makes you happy in a too oft uncaring universe; you gotta go with what you like, right?

however, to say that Jerry 'sounded better' in the '80s and '90s is really to admit that you are delusional at best, and anyone with even an iota of musical sense will quickly dismiss your argument as though from a ranting child, all emotion and appeal, little or no thought or rationality

but you admitted it yourself regarding the '70s, you just 'don't hear it' and that to me is sad

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Poster: agstwst33 Date: Apr 11, 2010 9:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Damn,you know how to make someone laugh,comedian! A child I am not,though I only attended 28 shows in the 90`s,I do know what I heard.I knew when I posted this that it would bring you 70`s worshiping elders out of your closet,just so you could try to convince otherwise.Not happening.The only thing sad is that you are so narrowly minded musicaly that you can`t hear past the 70`s.Because i also said i like the 70`s,you didn`t mention that in your reply.but like i said,i knew people like you would pass up this oppritunity to act superior,but thats only your world.you really amuse me,for real.your the one needing to listen.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 11, 2010 9:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

I prefer the '70s to the '80s and '90s although it wasn't always that way. My experiences were initiated in the '80s by tapes from the '80s and going to shows in the '90s. I loved the shows i went to, although that was my personal experience with the band, the people i went with, and the whole atmosphere. I own each show however when I listen to them objectively and not through the filter of my own experiences, only one show was really good and none compare to what the band was doing 20 years earlier. I found this place almost 5 years ago and my tastes for the music have been changed because I was willing to listen to all eras. I don't think mine is a unique experience. So I guess it depends on why you listen. You mention that you know what you heard at the 28 shows you saw. If you listen to relive your experiences on tour then you're right, no one will convince you that shows you were at are not as good in quality as those you were not. Me personally, I have allowed my ears not my memories shape my opinions. Whatever works for you is cool.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Apr 11, 2010 10:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

"I only attended 28 shows in the 90`s"

I guess that explains it. Your attending those shows made them better performances. Made the whole late era more compelling. Made Jer's shot voice sound healthy, made his drug addled brain more creative. You are absolutely correct! The heroin certainly enhanced Jerry's musicianship, the jamming was so much more inspired and creative during the 90's. The band never mailed in a performance after 1980. I guess it was the intimacy of those wonderful statium shows. What a shame Jerry didnt get on the Persian earlier in his career...

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Poster: agstwst33 Date: Apr 11, 2010 11:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

You are such a simple minded fool Mr. fucker..oops,Hucker.I knew you would have something to say on this.All of you can take my statements and twist them into whatever suits ya`ls point of view,no matter to me.As my friend pointed out to me in a positive response to this post,the people that do only see what they want to see and hear only the 70`s as their gold,spend all of their time in a forum/chat room and want to give me advice on what is good what isn`t,please!Sad,sad,sadThe dust that mars your ability to hear great music in latter years is so thick,i`m truely blessed not to be so narrow minded as you all,atleast I can say I love it all!but that it always was improving.thats where you fail and rise above...haters!!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Apr 11, 2010 10:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

"however, to say that Jerry 'sounded better' in the '80s and '90s is really to admit that you are delusional at best,..."

i didnt take it as the voice being "better" from a pure melodic standpoint, just more emotional or heartfelt

(then again, maybe i completely misinterpreted the dude's post)

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Poster: Lum Edwards Date: Apr 11, 2010 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

I find things I love in all the era's of GD music. If I had to pick one and only one to listen too it would be 70-78. But I also feel that the 70ish GD was A Whole Different Band from the 80's 90's GD. They had changed as everything will with time. I think the exploring they did early was more fun and experimental for them than later one. GD was ever evolving as any band will do if they play together 30 years or so. The 94 GD wasnt the same band as the 69 GD nor should they have been.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 11, 2010 10:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

I can find much to agree with in some of the posts above; augwst was treated better than might have been expected, IMHO...the notion of "soul" Dire raises is perfectly legit, and he counters it with the point I always make "it nonetheless was degraded", showing that the two of us can take two diff experiences away from it. Me, preferring the early, youthful, undgraded (drugs, smoking, etc.) voice, go for the early era, while Dire, finding appeal in the "soul" (and think of how his near death experiences may have brought this to the fore--I can understand that; perhaps even moreso solo/Grisman as Arb and elb note. Again, he wasn't really enjoying the DEAD machine by that time).

However, to defend the early era purists, which can rightly be critized for "wanting the band to sound young forever (clearly unrealistic), undamaged by drugs and smoking, etc., etc." all you have to do is look at (uh-oh, here I go again) two counter examples: CREAM and BlFaith (ie, recent Winwood/EC tour, I'll label as such for example's sake).

These two groups show individuals that went on to do many different things past what I love about them in the 60s. But here's where they differ from what happened to Jerry: in 2005 and 2009, the individuals involved in these bands got together, and played shows that revealed they could still, ALMOST sound as good as in 1968 and 1969.

Steve Winwood's voice is almost as good; his playing is perhaps better. EC is still able to sound CREAM esque, as are GBak and JBr, and each has only lost a little to age, and some near death experiences (JB not unlike our own Phil).

So, my point is that great bands/ind's do need to grow, experiment, do diff things to keep out of a rut; but without the degradation due to drugs and smoking and fastfood, etc., here we have two examples, CREAM/BlFaith, that COULD get together, and play a show that was ALMOST as good as 68.

Jerry just couldn't do that in 95. He may have had more soul, and still been able to reach us, but what I miss is that if he'd stayed healthy, he might have impressed me as much in 95 as EC/SW/JB/GBak did in 05 and 09.

Right BD?

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Apr 11, 2010 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Cream had the benefit of many years apart to refuel their intensity......apart from 75 GD never had that luxury (no wonder they stopped rehearsing)

btw, William, those 1967 live Cream cd's you sent are chalk full of incredible jamming, by 68 the vocals sound more palatable but the instrumental fierceness is already beginning to tame, they couldn't possibly re-create that energy level night after night...same is true for the original Mahavishnu lineup, 2 years and the gig was up (will be commenting on Cream/Maha once i give those discs a couple more whirls...fucking hot!)

one of the issues with performing modal/blues forms is things tend to get stale over time no matter how "super" the group may be...GD lasted because they continuously searched for harmonic and rhythmic concepts only paralleled by jazz artists

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 11, 2010 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

We shudda waited...I have much more if interested now.

But, you are right--67 is amazing, and it does begin to get a little redundant...

But # 2, it is just amazing to absorb that energy...again, for the 50th time, my bros loved the SF bands, and they came home from CREAM concerts in 67 and 68 as if they had died and gone to heaven...there had to be something to that.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Apr 11, 2010 1:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Although the original poster is more interested in ranting than discussing, he has a point. When Jerry wasn't hacking up or singing like Kermit, he was often singing with more depth & intensity - a more 'heartfelt' style, if you will. I think a song like Stella Blue, for instance, has more passion & dynamics in the early '80s than it did in the early '70s. And other songs he mentions like SotMoon, Days, So Many Roads, would be hard to imagine with that 'clear' young '70s voice.
Actually, in an interview after his coma ('87/88, I think?), Jerry mentions that he's trying to become more of a singer, & that he felt he could do better if he stopped smoking....which was never going to happen!

Anyway, WT - have to disagree with you on that 2005 Cream reunion. I think it's to '68 Cream as '95 Dead is to '68 Dead! Clapton had a scuzzy tone, Baker was weak, they kept getting locked into this rigid disco beat in the solos...

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 11, 2010 2:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

We saw Clapton in 2005 and it was absolutely unmemorable. Wooden and dead. Classic example of what you guys call "mailing it in." I saw him first in 1974 and there's no comparison.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 11, 2010 3:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Well, I dunno about 05; I know we too have disagreed about him in prior exchanges, BUT I know that BD will back up that in the pseudo "BlFaith" reunion in fall of 09, EC was amazing...Winwood as well. Not sure if it was the fact that he so wanted to work with him again, etc., etc., but that was an amazing show...

Now, that said, I actually don't like EC with ANYONE post about 71 (hmmm, sounds familiar I suppose), and esp don't like most everything he did in the 90s and 2000s...til the Winwood shows...

But anyhow, what bothered me about LiA (not liking CREAM in 05, though I will note there are MANY very positive reviews of that reunion in spite of his or my take on it--that was though why I said "almost" as good as 68), and I am not saying you are doing it, cause you aren't, BUT any of us can think of someone that played 40 yrs ago that sounds pretty darn good today...and Jerry just isn't one of those examples.

That was all I was trying to point out. Here would be another: Jimmy Cliff. His shows in 79 are more or less as good as the ones in 06...this I know from being a huge fan, and seeing him many times over the yrs, BUT also from the many reviews by other folks.

So, all I really wanted to say was "sure, most geezer circuit inds/bands/etc, degrade, BUT there are a small number that do not, and those generally are the sorts that don't smoke/overeat/shoot up/etc."

Rest assured, Ring, I know most of what I just posted was in response to LiA's missing my point entirely, not because of you noting that EC, like most geezers, could put on a terrible show...I do agree with that. I just think it's infinitely more probably for that to happen if you are a twinkie filled diabetic chain smoker while smoking heroin to boot....

Do I am seem cranky today? Chalk it up to another Laker's loss!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 11, 2010 6:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

>I just think it's infinitely more probably for that to happen if you are a twinkie filled diabetic chain smoker while smoking heroin to boot....

LOL, hard to argue with that.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 11, 2010 7:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

I'll echo WT on the EC/Winwood stuff and I saw the last night of the prior EC tour with Derek Trucks and that was great as well. Then again, one was mostly blind faith and a touch of traffic while the other covered derek and the dominoes and channeled the spirit of duane.

As far as geezers go, check out Emmylou sometime. Talk about aging gracefully.

Los Lobos still kick ass live and they ain't that young. They also continue to release interesting new material.

Mudcrutch was one of the best shows I've seen in years and Mr. Petty and Mike Campbell and Benmont Tench are getting a little long in the tooth. I think that effort rejuvenated them all and think Mojo may be a major surprise when it gets released. Crystal River live is the closest I've come to a vintage Jer/Keith moment (Mike specifically cites jer as an inspiration for the tune and his phrasing)

Nels Cline is on the other side of 50 and is fuckin' great. Him with Bill Frissell was a real treat (also another AARP card carrying musician).

Richard Thompson continues to put out stunning material and in my book improves over time. I'll let wordsmith weigh in on that one, but we're talking about a contemporary of Jerry, Eric, Dylan, etc who is probably now more relevant to more people than at any other point in his career.



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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 11, 2010 2:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Well, okay, we can disagree on CREAM 05; but, you will have alot to answer for if you say the same for Winwood and EC (09).

Was gonna say, it's fine to disagree, but misses the point: pick anyone YOU think held onto it longer...there are some examples.

Jerry isn't one...and for that, it's just the truth.

This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-04-11 21:11:17

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Apr 11, 2010 6:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Well - a fun afternoon is had by all. I think it would make it easier for you if you mentally added the word 'preference' into everyone's posts - or maybe IMO. Cause that's all it is. I saw shows from 70 to 90. My preference is 72-74. Yours is the 80s. Don't think anyone's mind is going to be changed. Don't think slamming folks works either. IMO Jerry was a ways over 30 by the time the 70's ended. I think he had most of his interpretive powers by then. If you think his raspy voice connotates extra wisdom, that is totally swell by me. My biggest problem is more with the turn towards synth sounds.